Kate Grandbois: Welcome to SLP nerd cast your favorite professional resource for evidence based practice in speech, language pathology. I'm Kate grant wa and I'm Amy 

Amy Wonkka: Wonka. We are both speech, language pathologists working in the field and co-founders of SLP nerd cast. Each 

Kate Grandbois: episode of this podcast is a course offered for ashes EU.

Our podcast audio courses are here to help you level up your knowledge and earn those professional development hours that you need. This course. Plus the corresponding short post test is equal to one certificate of attendance to earn CEUs today and take the post test. After this session, follow the link provided in the show notes or head to SLP ncast.com.

Amy Wonkka: Before we get started one quick, disclaimer, our courses are not meant to replace clinical. We do not endorse products, procedures, or other services mentioned by our guests, unless otherwise 

Kate Grandbois: specified. We hope you enjoy 

Announcer: the course. Are you an SLP related [00:01:00] professional? The SLP nerd cast unlimited subscription gives members access to over 100 courses, offered for ashes, EU, and certificates of attendance.

With SLP nerd cast membership, you can earn unlimited EU all year at any time. SLP nerd cast courses are unique evidence based with a focus on information that is useful. When you join SLP nerd cast as a member, you'll have access to the best online platform for continuing education and speech and language pathology.

Join as a member today and save 10% using code nerd caster 10. A link for membership is in the show notes

Episode

Kate Grandbois: Hello everyone. Welcome to SLP Nerd Cast. We are very excited about today's episode. We are recording this in July, 2025. Uh, this is our first recording of season seven, which is wild. I cannot believe that we've been [00:02:00] around for seven seasons and we are excited to kick off this season with a special guest, Sarah Ward, who is here to discuss executive functioning with us today.

Welcome, Sarah. 

Sarah Ward: Thank you. I'm so honored and excited that you invited me to be here and congratulations season seven. That's amazing. 

Kate Grandbois: Thank you. We think so. It makes us feel a little old, but that's okay. 

Amy Wonkka: Don't think about it that way. Uh, Sarah, you are here to discuss executive functioning, uh, shifting from adult regulated to self-regulated learning.

But before we get started, can you please tell us a little bit about yourself? 

Sarah Ward: Sure. So, um, I'm a speech and language pathologist. Um, and my background really started, um, I began on inpatient and outpatient, uh, working in a medical hospital, uh, teaching traumatic brain injury and doing, uh, intakes and rehabilitation and really liked my job.

Um, and kind of found myself in this situation where, uh, my [00:03:00] daughter was really struggling to develop executive function skills. And my husband had sustained a traumatic brain injury, a severe traumatic brain injury, and had lost his executive function skills. And I suddenly kind of found myself in this situation where, well, if I have a husband who's lost his executive skills and a daughter who's not developing him, I really need to know what, in, in a better way, what our executive functioning, how do you actually improve it?

Because at the time, I mean this was a long time ago, uh, in our field, we were defining what executive function was. There really were not as many practical strategies. To truly remediate executive function. It was much more sort of compensatory based. And so I think that's what really took me down the pathway of, um, well, how do you actually truly make improvement in these skills?

And so that sort of took me, uh, down the space of rehabilitation of executive function and then more and more working with students in schools. And now I, uh, do lots of [00:04:00] executive functioning with my co-director, Kristen Jacobson. She and I have been working together for almost 31 years. Um, and we teach executive function to classroom teachers, to speech pathologists, psychologists, OTs, um, parents.

And then we still have a very busy private practice where we work with students, um, and adults individually on developing their executive function skills. 

Kate Grandbois: Thank you so much for sharing that story. I, I, in terms of your, you know, personal path to studying executive functioning, I, I find that executive functioning, uh, is one of these topics in our field that feels very nebulous, feels, you know, when you're first entering the field, it's this kind of scary, vague, everybody has it, but like, what is it?

And, you know, how do, how do we treat it? We know that Im, it impacts everything we do, but there's this very, um, it feels like a gray area and we've talked about executive functioning on the podcast before and I'm excited to pinpoint exactly how it is not a [00:05:00] gray area. How it is something that we all experience that is within our scope of practice.

Um, and, you know, it would be great if it was more in our scope of competence as well. So, uh, I am gonna read our learning objectives so that give us a little bit of a, um, guidepost in terms of how we are gonna talk about executive functioning. As competence for speech pathologists who are listening today.

So after, uh, listening to this episode, everyone listening will be able to self-report knowledge gains related to how situational awareness, self-talk, forethought and episodic memory are. The foundational skills for successful task execution. Participants will also be able to self-report knowledge gains related to how mental simulation of movement through space and time supports more accurate time estimation and effective task planning.

So, to kick us off, tell us just to even the playing field for people out there who might be less [00:06:00] familiar with executive functioning, what is it, how do you define this nebulous gray thing that we all experience, but, you know, might, might be hard for us to articulate. What is it? 

Sarah Ward: Uh, I do love that oftentimes they sort of boil it down to the simplest definition of getting stuff done.

I mean, I mean truly that is everything that kind of encompasses it. So it's that what skill that you have to use to get stuff done to, for example, get yourself dressed in the morning and get out the door and follow a morning routine. It's to be able to get stuff done to make yourself coffee. It's be able to get yourself done to, uh, return the Amazon packages that need to be returned within the 30 day window.

It's your ability to, in school, for example, get stuff done, to listen to the direction that the teacher gave you, and to transition and to have the materials that you need to be ready for that. In class activity. Um, it's that ability to get stuff done [00:07:00] to, for example, in a social situation, uh, participate in a conversation and be able to communicate what you wanna share with your friend or to get your needs met.

So while that's sort of a big, broad definition, then what we, you know, sort of boil that down to is executive function is really this ability to, um, not just plan a task, but to visually be able to simulate and see what it's going to look like when you've accomplished that task. And then to be able to sort of plan backwards what are the actions that you're going to take to be able to get that task done.

Um, and that in. If you've visualized and you know, okay, if I've successfully achieved this task and this is what it looks like when it's done, then that's what allows you to have metacognition and compare planned versus actual. This is what I visualized, this is what it looks like as I'm now actually carrying out the task to do [00:08:00] this so that if my actions don't match and it's not, uh, sort of stepping and shoring up to being what it's gonna look like when it's done, then that's what allows me to say, well, uhoh, why not?

And let me be able to shift and to be flexible. So if I kind of, again, come back, big definition, it's getting stuff done, but it is truly that skill that allows us to visualize what done looks like to be able to sequence and determine the actions we're gonna take to get that task done, uh, and then to initiate that task.

And then self-regulate are my actions actually matching that done outcome. 

Kate Grandbois: That's so interesting. And, and one of, one of the things I find fascinating about executive functioning is that you can boil it down to this very simple definition, but it's actually 1 million things. Yeah. You know, it, it's, and it's different things being coordinated at the same time.

Um, one of the things Absolutely. That we wanted to talk with you about today, [00:09:00] something that's a part of the, your approach to executive functioning was this, which is this idea of going from adult regulated to self-regulated. What do you mean when you say adult regulated versus self-regulated? 

Sarah Ward: I. Yeah, so I see so often that, uh, kids are really living in this, what we call kind of adult regulated world.

And when an adult regulated world, it's where when we talk about getting stuff done, so let's say the get stuff done is that I am dressed and ready to go to school. I've made my lunch, I've done my homework, I've written my essay, I've studied for the exam, whatever it is, uh, or in class that I've followed the transition.

So many times students are being queued by adults to all of those steps of what it is that they need to do. So the adult is saying, okay, we're out the door, you know, at seven 30, go upstairs, get dressed, [00:10:00] um, don't forget to make your lunch, and you need your bag. And the adult has now queued them to all the things that they need to do to carry out that routine.

And then the adult says, you know, maybe comes upstairs and the child's distracted, and the adult says, okay, uh, we're out the door. Now we only have, now we only have 10 minutes left. Um, you need to get your backpack, okay? Don't forget to put your bag, you know, your, or your books into your backpack. Um, and now we only have five minutes.

All right? You need to hurry. The problem here is, is that the adult is queuing two. What the skills are that the student needs to do for the task the adults queuing to how much time and keeping pace for the child. Um, and even in a classroom, it's kind of the same thing the teacher is saying, uh, you know, get your whiteboard and your marker and your fraction circles and sit at your desk.

Nope. You need to go over there and get your whiteboard all right. Now, don't, don't do this, do this. [00:11:00] And the adult is doing all of the queuing as opposed to the student who's able to say. Huh? How much time do I have? Am I feeling the passage of time? How do I know that I need to increase or decrease my pace to be able to get out the door on time?

How do I know what needs to go in my bag? And so we want the child to begin to be developing those skills. Um, I think another big thing that I see is so often we see lots of executive function goals where it's, uh, the child will take a larger task and break it down into smaller, more manageable parts.

But the challenge is that often the adult has broken the task into smaller parts and wants the student to follow the smaller steps. It's not that the child has actually learned, how do I break it down into individual parts. So that's the shift that we're always trying to make is not that the adult is giving the child the steps, but the [00:12:00] child is developing.

How do I know and how do I sense that passage of time and how do I know that I'm actually accomplishing this goal and, and being able to complete it and to get it done. 

Amy Wonkka: As you're speaking, I'm picturing the like skill of executive functioning as being the center intersection between a Venn diagram with all of these overlapping skill circles, right?

Where there's the time awareness and breaking down tasks. Um, can you talk to us a little bit about what building. All of those component skills looks like, I guess, as a school-based person, particularly across the age span in a school setting. So if I'm a teacher, I'm a speech language pathologist listening to this, and I'm saying, yes, that's exactly what I'm doing.

I'm giving my student all of those component parts and asking them to execute them rather than for them to develop the skill of building those parts themselves. Um, what are some [00:13:00] expectation points where you might see different skills targeted at different age bands? So for example, how might I work with my first grade student versus my fifth grade student in sort of setting the stage for the development of some of those skill sets?

Sarah Ward: You bet. Such a great question. Um, and I'll answer this with just. Kind of an interesting way, I guess. I think one of the biggest challenges that I see in school, um, based situations is you've maybe done an evaluation and the child presents with executive function challenges, and we have a team meeting to determine whether we're gonna provide services.

And when it comes to executive function, nobody knows who to own it, because if there's not a quote unquote communication problem, sometimes the speech and language pathologist doesn't even get to provide executive function, quote therapy or executive function goals. I mean, you know, it's, it's a, uh, they need to have language or communication based goals.

So this is kind of [00:14:00] confusing. And so to, and, and I answer that because when you're saying, so how do I address this as a speech pathologist with my first grader versus my fifth grader? It's that the, the relationship between language and executive function is very bidirectional. So language supports executive functioning and executive functioning supports language.

So. If you think about that first grader, um, a first grader is just learning to be able to really follow directions, um, to be able to know to, they're learning how to be a student in class. So it's being able to sit in class. It's being able to self-regulate your behavior. It's being able to control your impulses.

Um, it's being able to sort of, uh, problem solve a little bit and to be able to begin to use your language to organize the action you're gonna take to get something done. So with my first grader where I'm really working on executive functioning, uh. I'm [00:15:00] gonna be working on helping that student be able to visualize an end outcome, really be able to see what that looks like.

And then what I'm really gonna be working on is their ability to sequence actions. So sequencing skills is something I'm really gonna be working out with my first grader. Um, I'm going to, and I think something that's important about that too is that so often when we, as speech pathologists are building vocabulary, we really spend a lot of time building noun vocabularies.

But the reality is, is that action verbs are the vocabulary that we need to be building for executive function. So what action am I going to take? And those are verbs to achieve that goal that I've envisioned for myself. So I think with that first grader, we're also really building and working on verb vocabularies.

Um, and so verb vocabularies, um, not just sort of like. Jump and run, obviously, but, um, you know, [00:16:00] what specific action am I going to take? So if my done goal is that I've, um, uh, filled out this worksheet, uh, for my spelling, you know, my early spelling words, whatever it is, I have to have those action verbs of I need to read the directions, I need to, um, write the spelling words I need to, um, think of a sentence, you know, that mental state verb of think I need to draw a picture.

So really working on their ability to take an action verb and, and convert it into the actual action they're going to take. Whereas if I'm looking at my fifth grader. Um, it, it's going to be much more around having that student be able to visualize what a done goal actually looks like, um, and to be able to more clearly define that for themselves.

My fifth grader, I'm really gonna be looking at, can they themselves come up with the action verbs? Can they themselves determine what action it is that [00:17:00] they are going to take? Um, can they more aptly problem solve, uh, you know, potential obstacles? Can that fifth grader have better metacognition to be able to reflect back and say, what worked and what didn't work, and what would I do differently next time?

So you're really moving from basic language to more sort of higher order reasoning and problem solving skills with your fifth grader. 

Kate Grandbois: I have a question about visualization. Mm-hmm. So even that as a strategy is very abstract. And I'm thinking of some of the learners I've known with executive functioning deficits over the years and trying to teach them as a first step how to visualize, is it drawing a picture?

Like how do you take a concept like that and make it concrete for someone who has a really hard time thinking ahead like that? 

Sarah Ward: So executive function always [00:18:00] begins with, uh, what we call that nonverbal working memory. And nonverbal working memory is mental visualization. A great way to think of it as is a mental whiteboard.

And some students have really big mental whiteboards. They can really visualize a lot. Some students, um, have small mental whiteboards. There's not a lot of nonverbal working memory. And some students, like you said, really don't visualize and they don't create that mental imagery in mind. And I think that's an important thing to be thinking about as a speech pathologist when you're doing an assessment and to understand that, um, actually sort of this day and age technology is really impacting that.

So. To, and again, I think that's a critical thing, place to sort of start before you even answer the question of how do you teach it. So one of my favorite things to do, especially if I'm interviewing a family or I'm interviewing a student, is I love to ask one of several questions. I love [00:19:00] to say to them, when you read a book and you're reading those, you know, words on the page.

Do the words on the page create an image or a movie in your mind? So that's a good entry point to know is the student visualizing? Does text create an image? And some students will say, well, what do you mean? Or I don't know. So for example, if I say, okay, the horse galloped across the field, does that create an image for you of a field?

And is it a big field? Is it a wide open field? Um, a horse, you know, are you picturing a certain color horse? And do you picture that movement of the horse? You know, is it just walking? What does galloping actually look like to you? The next question I'll ask a student is, is imagine you're, you know, downstairs or down the hall in the kitchen and you're eating breakfast and your mom says, uh, go upstairs and get your sweatshirt from your bedroom and your backpack by your desk, even though you're downstairs.

Do you actually see yourself walking upstairs, going down the hall into your bedroom? Can you see your [00:20:00] closet? And do you see that, uh, gray sweatshirt hanging on the hook on the back of your closet door? It's amazing how many students will be like, no, I'm eating breakfast. You know, they don't really create that imagery.

So the, the reason why I mention that is, is that we also know the number one catalyst to the development of executive function skills is imaginary play. So if I have a block, or even if I have an actual firetruck that looks like a firetruck. I still have to create this mental image in my mind, if you will, of, well, there's a neighborhood and there's a tree, and there's a cat in the tree.

So even if I'm moving my block or my firetruck, oh no, there's a cat in the tree. Let me climb up the ladder and pull the cat out of the tree. I'm visualizing that scenario. I'm visualizing that situation or that context of the neighborhood and the cat in the tree. The [00:21:00] challenge that we're seeing right now is that a lot of students, their imaginary play is an iPad or an iPhone.

Um, and we're, and and that's really unfortunate, you know, we're sort of like, quote, babysit the child even if it's an educational game. The challenge is that those educational kind of even reading games. Are giving students the visual, they may not have to create the visual on their own. So, uh, even if they're practicing a decoding or a reading game and it's the, um, cat chase, the mouse, I'm seeing a picture of a cat chasing a mouse on my video screen.

So we are seeing that students, um, are watching lots of YouTubes, they're, they're living in a very visual world, that it's not developing the visualization on their own. So I have to kind of, I have to feel like I have to kind of give that background before I can answer your question. So, to develop visualization skills, we really don't wanna be using [00:22:00] clip art that much.

We wanna be using actual photographs in many ways. So if I have that student where. I want them to be getting ready to go somewhere. I don't wanna just give them random little clip arts of do you have a coat and do you have a lunchbox? And do you have all the things. I really want them to have a photograph of themselves, visually dressed and ready to go to school.

Um, so my hair is brushed, I'm wearing a shirt, I've got pants on. My shoes are fully tied, whatever it is. And from that language-based perspective, I don't wanna get to the specifics of, okay, I'm wearing my, um, I don't know, my pink t-shirt with the rainbow on the front because. It's really more about that student contextually understanding.

Um, what future situation am I going to? I'm going to the park, I'm going to school, I'm going to my, uh, [00:23:00] baseball practice. Okay? So if I know that the features of being dressed mean that I have on shirt and pants and shoes, well, if I'm going to baseball practice, my shirt is going to be the same but different.

It's gonna be maybe my. Team shirt. If I'm going to the park and it's a cooler day outside, then my shirt's gonna be the same but different. I'm gonna need long sleeves, not short sleeves. Um, so if I'm going to school, then maybe my shirt is gonna be my favorite comfortable shirt because it really like it and it makes me feel good.

So the goal is, is that when we're really developing visualization, we wanna help students visualize context and we want them to be able to truly visualize what they are going to look like so that it's, um, very realistic visualization. I hope that helps. 

Kate Grandbois: No, it helps tremendously. And it's making me reflect on, um, just the [00:24:00] immense, uh, undertaking of teaching executive functioning skills, just because there are so many components to this that was like a very rich explanation of all of the steps that are required for developing one aspect of this many spoke wheel, uh, of a skill that we have.

It's also making me think about something you said earlier. About how language and executive functioning are by have a bi-directional relationship. So language influencing, executive functioning. Executive functioning, influencing language. Absolutely. And how a speech language pathologist, knowing this very large mountain to climb in terms of skill acquisition, how we might balance that with other linguistic deficits that our learners may experience.

So for example, you have a learner on your caseload who experiences executive functioning deficits, but also has a goal written for irregular past tense acquisition. I don't know any other, like, [00:25:00] like language goal. How do you balance these things in therapy, knowing that executive functioning is a foundational piece and also a, uh, you know, a, I don't wanna say like a, a, a rabbit hole, but there's a lot of, there's a lot going on there.

How do you 

Sarah Ward: balance that? 100%. Um, and I get this question all the time, which is that I have language goals, I have social skills goals, I have, you know, articulation goals. How can I possibly work on executive functioning? Um, and I don't feel like you have to give up one for the other. So the way that I would answer that is that, um, my coworker Kristen and I have developed an, an approach called the get ready do Done Methodology, which is, um.

It, you know, it's, I think sometimes it gets simplified, but it's very, um, robust in how it develops executive function skills. And there's a lot of sort of fidelity to using the approach. So we always teach that executive [00:26:00] function starts with the done visualizing. What will it look like when I'm done, if I've achieved this goal, if I've done what it is that I need to do, what does done look like?

We then work backwards to students identifying what are the action steps or what is it that I'm going to do to get this done? And we use those action steps to visualize, say that timeframe. As well as then to determine what you would need to get ready. Now the get ready could be physical materials, you might need to do the task, get ready, could be a self-regulation.

Uh, what do I need to do to get my mindset? So for example, if your done goal is to just get the loan laundry goal and put away, you might have the action steps of what you're gonna do, but to get ready. Okay, sure. Maybe you need a laundry basket, but maybe you need a really good podcast to listen to too.

You know? 'cause it's gonna help you self-regulate. So, I mean, I mean, it's a simplistic example, but, so, you know, get Ready is not just materials, it's anticipating obstacles. What might [00:27:00] get in the way of getting that done, done. The reason I mention that for your question about, you know, language goals that aren't necessarily executive function is that I love to use the get ready do done methodology to teach language goals so that you, for example.

You can identify what is the done goal. So the done goal is, is that I've learned how to produce an R sound, um, in, in sentences. The done goal is that I have a social skill goal of how to join a conversation, um, with multiple people. Let's say. The done goal is that, um, I've learned, um, how to visualize a text.

The done goal is that I can, um, explain something, um, and define words. Okay, well then what we wanna do is work backwards to, well, what are the action steps of what you do to get that done goal? So if my [00:28:00] done goal is to join a conversation, I can actually work backwards, uh, through the steps of what are the action steps we take to join a conversation and to get ready.

Maybe I'm going to use my, uh, add a thoughts, social skills strategy. I mean, that can be where my strategy comes in of what I need. If my done goal is to define a word and let's say, what am I going to do? I'm going to use the expanding expression tool. I. To do that, I can now teach the expanding expression tool within the steps of the do task.

And then you can shift that strategy to. Now let's say that my done goal is to write a descriptive paragraph describing a favorite gift that I received. Um, you know, that's a classic school task, right? Uh, describe a favorite gift that you've received. Well, I can now know if my done goal is, what does my paragraph look like?

What do I need to do? I [00:29:00] need to define the gift. I need to write, I need to edit and revise. Now, my expanding expression tool can be the strategy and the tool that I use to get ready to organize my thoughts, to write that done goal of the descriptive paragraph. So. To come back. Any executive phone, you know, any language goal you have, you can move it through the stages of the get ready do done model.

The done goal can be, I'm learning how to produce that r sound in my mouth and I can, you know, have the accurate placement of my tongue. What am I gonna do? We're gonna practice it in isolation. We're gonna practice it with single words. We're gonna practice it in sentences. And to get ready, we're gonna, um, review what we did the last time we practiced R Then I can move that through.

Where now, let's say my done goal is to, um, share what I did this weekend while producing my r correctly. I can [00:30:00] move through the steps of the do. We're going to, uh, work on placement of that R sound in our mouth. So the, the reason why I mention that is, is that. I don't feel like you have to give up a language goal for executive function.

You can use the backwards planning model and teach kids how to plan backwards while using your, uh, language-based goals. Hope that explained that. 

Amy Wonkka: That was really helpful. And I, and I think it sort of brings us to one of our other questions we had for you, which was around collaboration with teachers, with parents, with other team members. Again, thinking more in a school-based setting, but it, it seems to me that that get ready, do, done framework could be something that pretty easily steps outside of the therapy office and across a student's day.

And I wondered if you could talk to us a little bit about some strategies for helping facilitate that transfer and making sure that just becomes something that is happening [00:31:00] all day long across all sorts of tasks, not just language and articulation. 

Sarah Ward: Absolutely. So. Um, we do a lot of supporting of parents at home, of course, because that's where you're gonna see a lot of transfer of executive function and skills.

And I think, again, if we come back to that thought of adult versus self-regulated learning is how often parents will say, uh, get ready for school, get ready for baseball, get ready for bed. All those things. And we always say, you don't wanna start executive function with Get Ready. Uh, because if I start with Get Ready, I've basically.

You know, and bypassed all of those core underpinnings of executive functioning, which is visualizing what the done goal looks like, which is being able to develop the actions of what I'm gonna take to get something done. So when we're consulting with parents and teachers, um, one of the most simple entry points is really the use of photographs versus checklists because [00:32:00] so many people will say, yeah, I read a book on executive function, and they said, go ahead and give the kid a checklist.

But the challenge is, if I give the kid a checklist and I say, okay, here's all the things you need to do to get out the door this morning. You need to brush your hair, brush your teeth, get dressed, pack your bag, make your lunch, and um, get your shoes outta the front hall. Well, the problem is I've just done all the simulating and all the visualization of the steps of what needs to happen to get that done.

Uh, so the number one thing we really recommend is that when a student has actually accomplished the done goal, they are dressed in, they're ready to get out the door. Uh, if you're a classroom teacher and the child is at their desk and they're ready, they're student ready to learn, or they're at the rug in that rug spot ready to participate in whole group instruction, or their backpack is packed and ready to go home, um, we always recommend grab your phone and take a photograph of [00:33:00] what done looks like.

And this isn't even for young children. If you're working with an upper grade student who, uh, and your child needs to, um, clean the basement before they come up for bed, they need to, um, take out the recycling and manage that task, whatever it might be. Get a photograph of what that actually looks like.

You know, those recycling cans are all the way at the end of the driveway. Uh, there's a, they're four feet apart and they're four feet from the mailbox with the student. Get the photograph of what that looks like. And you wanna be very transparent with the student, Hey, you are dressed and ready to go to school.

I 100% see it head to toe. Let's get a photograph. We know that this is what out the door looks like, and we get that photograph. You're at your desk, you have all the tools you need. Let's get that photograph. The reason why is because I, the next day, can show that photograph to the student and say, this is you ready to go to school.

And now I wanna shift that student not from [00:34:00] me saying Go do this, this, and this, but saying to the student, what tells you that you are ready to go to school? How do you know? Or if it's a picture of the student fully dressed and ready for soccer, how do you know you're ready to go to soccer? Like, what does that look like?

What do you see? I am gonna stop talking because I want that student to be able to look and to say, uhoh, well, my hair is brushed. Um, I'm wearing my, uh, t-shirt and shorts. I, I have cleats on. I want the student, my, my, I have a baseball bag. My, you know, whatever it is, you know, for whatever the sport is. Um, I see that my, you know, my, my baseball bat is sticking outta the bag.

You want that student to be able to really look and identify what tells me that it's done. So if I show that, you know, teenager, okay. Remember, here's the photograph. We took it yesterday of the recycling out. [00:35:00] How do you know, like, what do you see in this photograph that tells you you accomplished the goal of recycling?

Well, the cans are all the way at the end of the driveway. They're on the other side of the sidewalk. They're four feet apart. You want the student to be able to identify that so that when, and the other advantage of that is, is that if I say to a child, go upstairs and get ready for soccer practice your definition of ready, and my definition of ready as a kid might be completely different.

I mean, that kid might just come down with shorts and t-shirt and not the socks and the shin guards and the cleats and, um, their hair pulled back in with a headband. It, I mean, whatever it is. So it also, that photograph really brings the shared joint imagery together. So at the most simplistic level, we love the entry point of use photographs and use that photograph to allow the student the opportunity to [00:36:00] self-regulate and to, on their own, begin to plan backwards.

Kate Grandbois: I just wanna comment as a parent, the idea that your definition of ready and your child's definition of ready are very different things. The number of times I've asked my children to get ready for school and they come downstairs, you know, it's January and they're in shorts, I'm like, no, turn around. Go back, go back upstairs.

It's a, I think it's such a great suggestion for shared, um, using visuals for shared goals, you know, defining, defining shared expectations. I think that's just so smart across the board. Well, and I 

Sarah Ward: have to jump in and say that the photograph part is that photographs actually really teach problem solving and flexible thinking, because so many times I think families will say, oh, well, I, I can't go running around.

I'd have 800 photographs, and they might say, and, and I actually don't want a parent to just, you know, put 10,000 photographs up on the child's bedroom wall or all over the bathroom or whatever it is. [00:37:00] It's actually much better to have. Three or four, just single photographs and that's it. So I might have that photograph of a student ready for school.

And here's one of the coolest things that you can do, is to teach problem solving is I can say to that student, I want you to look out the window and see what is the weather like today? Well, it's snowing and it's cold. Okay? If it's snowing and it's cold, and here's a photograph that I took of you in August, ready to go to school, how would you look?

The same, but different and same, but different as our favorite phrase for teaching cognitive flexibility. Well, same. I'm gonna have a shirt and I'm gonna have, you know. Pants on, but different. My shirt really needs to be long sleeve and thick to keep me warm and my pants really need to be, not shorts, but long to cover my legs.

Maybe I want that student to visualize, well, you're going to be in school and we [00:38:00] know that actually sometimes the classroom gets really hot, you know, they've cranked up the heat because it is cold. So you really do want to quote unquote, dressed in layers. I want you to be able to visualize, well, I'm gonna have a long sleeve shirt and a sweatshirt that zips so I can easily take my sweatshirt off and put it on if it does get really hot in school or, or you know, the opposite for air conditioning.

So. One of my favorite things to do is to have that photograph. And then I'll also love to have photographs of future contexts. So if you have a student who's going to, I don't know, an uh, a exercise class at the, um, sky Zone trampoline park, or they're going to a birthday party at Sky Zone trampoline park, um, you're gonna be going to Sky Zone.

I might pull up a photograph even on my phone of Sky Zone and say, that's where you're gonna be. Imagine yourself at in that situation. What does that look like? I'm jumping up and down. Uh, I'm [00:39:00] going to the birthday party. Uh, I'm eating pizza with my friends. Um, and I also know that at Sky Zone there's an arcade.

Okay, great. If you're going to be going to Sky Zone and here's a photograph of what you look like when you're ready, you know, for the day to go to school, how are you gonna look the same but different at Sky Zone? Well, I'm gonna get hot and sweaty jumping up and down, so I wanna make sure I have a t-shirt on.

I know that my socks tend to roll, so I need to have long socks. I can't have short socks. Um, I know when I go to that birthday part of it, I'm gonna be giving my friend a gift. So instead of a backpack, I'm gonna need to be bringing a gift. We're really getting that student to simulate what they're gonna look like in the action they're gonna take in a future situation, and that develops higher order reasoning thinking and cognitive flexibility skills.

So supporting that student in having that joint image in future context is also really powerful with [00:40:00] photographs. 

Amy Wonkka: So you just sort of transitioned us, or, or gave a little sneak preview for one of our other questions, which was around situational awareness. So you've talked a lot about sort of developing that awareness with regards to, you know, dressing for school, getting ready, cognitive flexibility.

How would you expand that? I guess first of all, what is situational awareness, um, and how is it related to executive functioning? How can we as SLPs help to build those skills? 

Sarah Ward: Oh my gosh, it's so important. It's one of my favorite topics. So, um, situational awareness is really what we call that ability to stop and read the room and, um, stop.

Conveniently stands for the four features of situational awareness, which are that in any given situation, we're aware of the space that we are in. We have to be aware of time, we have to be aware of objects that we might need, and we have to be aware of people in two different ways. So we have to [00:41:00] be aware of.

Other people in this situation and, and what are they doing? Um, and we always have to be aware of our own actions in a given situation. And we refer to that as really having your role, like what is your job or role and what is the role of other people in any given situation. So for example, when if I, you know, back those all out, when we stop and read the room, we are always aware of the space and what's going on in this space.

Um, is this a typical expected sort of action in this space or is it a little unusual and unexpected in this situation? Um, so for example, in a classroom, let's say that the situation is I'm at morning meeting. Okay, space, where are you? I am at the rug. And what usually happens at morning meeting is we are on the rug and we, um, sit in a circle.

So I'm always sort of situationally aware of what's the usual thing that's going on in this space. We're. We are [00:42:00] absolutely 100% always existing on a timeline. We are always aware of what time is it right now and what's happening in this moment in time, what's coming up next, and what is the pace and the amount of time I have between now and that next transition.

And that's gonna help me be aware of time and to be aware of how I'm gonna pace myself. Um, and we are forever on a timeline. Always. I mean, you know, even as you and I are here having this conversation, we're aware of the time, how much time has passed. You know, what's our quote deadline for talking, you know, how much, how verbose can I be, you know, in this given moment in time.

Um, we are always aware of objects, so if I'm that student in class and I'm on the rug, I have to be aware of, okay, well I do have morning meeting, but what do I know is coming up next is math. We always have math after morning meeting. That's the usual routine. I can expect that sequence. And we're always aware of objects.

What objects do I need to have with me for this given moment in time? Or what objects do I [00:43:00] not need? I don't need any objects maybe at morning meeting. So that also cues me to, uh, regulation and impulse control. I should, you know, what's relevant to irrelevant. Maybe I shouldn't have a little mini eraser, I shouldn't have a little fidget tool that's not appropriate for this given situation.

Um, and then I also need to be aware of my role. If I'm the child on the rug for morning meeting, maybe my job is to be a listener or maybe my job is to be a, um, calendar taker, if that's what my role particular in that moment is. Um, right now you and I have a specific role Right now. My job is to sort of be the talker and yours is to be the interviewer and the listener.

So in any given situation, we are very much regulating. What's going on in this situation right now? What time it is and how much time do I have? What objects do I need and what's my job? And that is really what's also gonna a allow, allow you to regulate. Well [00:44:00] if this is the situation I'm in now, what does that future situation look like and how will those features, um, flex and uh, for that future situation?

So if you go to an upper grade student, let's say that, um, it's after school and they come home and, and they're doing homework and it's four o'clock, but they have to be out the door at 4 45. Well, I only have 45 minutes, so in this situation in time, maybe I can't get the done goal of completely writing up my lab report for science class.

So I have to be aware of. That object. Well, what are the parts of a lab report? Maybe I've got my hypothesis and the materials and the methodology. So in this given moment of time, of 45 minutes, if I can't write up the whole lab report, I could visually see that maybe I can get done. Writing out the list of materials and, [00:45:00] um, the steps of the methodology.

'cause that doesn't require that much analysis and I could just get that written in this amount of time. So that's gonna cue me to, well, what objects am I gonna need? I'm gonna need my class notes, I'm gonna need my textbook, and I'm gonna need the, uh, worksheet that outlined the parts in the steps of the lab and the objective of the lab.

So I now have a very specific role. My job right now is to be a methodology definer and to be a materials solicitor. And we love calling that job talk because, um, it really gives you agency and it gives you that finality of that executive function goal of get stuff done. If I just sit down at, at four o'clock and like, oh, I have science homework that is so open-ended, I mean, it doesn't give me what my done goal is.

But if I sit down and say, okay, you know what, in the next 45 minutes, I'm gonna be a materials definer. Well, then it's very clear because at then at the end of the 45 minutes, if I've done what I need to [00:46:00] do, I've defined the materials. I, you know, I've, like, I've listed out what they are. So, um, that situational awareness absolutely allows us in any given situation to be aware of where am I now and what's happening and what objects do I need and what's my job right now so that I can visualize if I go upstairs and get ready for school.

Well, now the space I'm gonna be in is my bedroom. What's the amount of time I have 10 minutes to get ready? What objects do I need to be ready for school and what's my job? Well, I need to be a toothbrusher and I need to be a dresser. Uh, not the clothes as in the furniture, but the action of the dresser.

You know? So I really think that, um. To sort of come back full circle so many times, it's always really important to understand executive function actually has very little to no correlation to iq. Uh, it's less than 2%. And oftentimes we find some of our students with the highest [00:47:00] IQs often struggle the most with executive function.

And sometimes our students with even what we would define as on that sort of lower ender of IQ, can actually have better executive functioning. Um, but what we do know is, is that executive function has a near correlate to situational awareness. Um, your ability to be situationally aware, um, fundamentally improves your ability to execute a task.

Kate Grandbois: I love that description. I love the acronym. I find acronyms to be so handy to compartmentalize, especially as a therapist when we're trying to think through the steps we need to teach a, a new skill. I'm finding as I, as I listen to you and digest all of this, I have a similar question. Uh, it's similar to the question I asked previously about visualization.

Concepts of time are also so abstract and I'm thinking about the learner. Who says, okay, just the example that you gave, it's four o'clock, I have 45 minutes, I have science homework. Well, 45 minutes equals [00:48:00] two weeks vacation, right In time, 45 minutes feels like a million years or an hour Is, is no time at all.

What are, are there other visuals that you use to help just teach what it feels like to pass time so that someone understands I have 45 minutes. That is I an amount of time that's appropriate for a, but not appropriate for task B? How do you, I, and I'm, I'm just ref even reflecting on myself as I'm saying this, just feeling the passing of time is something that is a sit, a very specific kind of situational awareness, I assume.

What do you, how do you go about addressing that? 

Sarah Ward: Absolutely, because we have to be able to see ourselves moving through space and time. I mean, they, they go together. Um, and it's such a great question and it's, it is a big question. Um, so I'll start by saying this, which is that, um, really a lot of times, um, [00:49:00] students live in a digital world.

So when they're learning time, we start, we, we now know, uh, particularly unfortunately, that a lot of times, um, schools are really minimizing how much they teach analog time because it's like, ah, don't worry about it. They'll just use digital time. And one of my favorite diagnostic questions when I say to a student is, if your adult says to you, uh, it's three 30, do you picture?

And I'll give them an image of. Digital three point, you know, 30 or do you picture three 30 and I'll show them an analog clock. And 99% of the time students will say, oh, I think three 30. Like I hear the words three 30 and I think three colon, three, you know, 30 and many students, um. Can't read an analog clock.

And they're not, and even if they can, they're not fluent at it. I mean, they're, it is just not that automatic for them. The, it takes them a little bit to kind of figure it out and to, to do that, and they don't have a lot of practice with it. [00:50:00] So the number one way that we can truly visualize. Hourly time for actions, you absolutely have to use analog time because analog time takes the invisibility of time and makes it visible.

And many people who know our work know our favorite strategy is we love to use clocks with dry erase markers. And we literally shade on the clock and fill in, um, what times looks like, how time will pass, and we turn time into a volume. So if we have that student who has from four to 4 45 available to do homework, and we'll call it science homework, I'm gonna have the student with me in practicing this shade on the clock, what does four to 4 45 actually look like?

So, shading, uh, from four to 4 0 5, 4 10, 4 15, 4 24 34, 4 45, so that they're, as they're shading on that clock, that they're prefe, that sweep of time. And then we're gonna have them [00:51:00] actually not just outline that 45 minute pie of time, but to shade it in so that they can see what 45 minutes looks like. So that's part one.

But the second thing is you now need to see yourself moving through space and time. If you had not used a clock to visually show them that this is what I see happen. Students sit down to do homework. They don't really, and in their mind, they're like, well, I have 45 minutes blocked to do homework. In all reality, they sit down, they don't really know what they have for homework.

So they kind of look around, they get their phone, they open it up, and before you know it, by the time they've gotten something to drink and a snack and they've gone through like all their Google classroom, it's four 15. And then they're like, oh yeah, I have science. And they might not even really know, okay, well what do I actually need for that science?

Oh yeah, I need to get that, uh, class notes. Oh, well that's in my backpack, which is up in my bedroom. So then they go up to their bedroom and they come back downstairs, and then they pet the dog, and then they go to the bathroom, and then they [00:52:00] come back and now it's four 30. And mom says, remember, we're out the door at 4 45.

And they're like, oh yeah, right? And I've gotta go to soccer practice and I need my bag. And so what's the point in even getting started now? And then they don't even do the homework. So the reality is, is that they have not seen how their actions and how moving through space and time have actually filled up.

Those time robbers have actually filled up that time. So that's where, if we're shading on that clock, we can really say, okay, you are going to actually plan 10 minutes to get ready, which incorporates opening up your computer, getting your class notes, determining what it is that you need to do. Then from four 10 to four 40 is where you're actually going to be doing the work of working on the lab.

And from four 40 to 4 45 is where you're going to close out that task and make sure you submit it, put your [00:53:00] notes away, and put everything back into your backpack so that all of a sudden the student realizes I don't actually have 45 minutes of. Homework time. In all reality, it's really 30 minutes of working time.

So if I'm gonna accomplish that task, what is it that I need to be able to do? Um, I need to, um, spend 15 minutes writing up the materials and 15 minutes listing out that methodology. So the number one goal is that if you shade that time on a clock, all of a sudden the student can see how their actions will fill up in that time, and they need to visualize where they're moving in space to do that.

Amy Wonkka: Just to keep us on the theme of time for one more minute. So we've got really nice strategies in terms of making that time more concrete, um, figuring out what we're going to do in that period of time. How about your students who just have a [00:54:00] super hard time getting started? So I, I've identified my amount of time that I have, I've identified the tasks that can fit within that block of time.

Just can't get started. Just can't get started. Do you have any tips or tricks, um, to help those students kind of come over the hurdle of initiating some of those tasks? 

Sarah Ward: It's so hard. Um, yeah. I mean, I think especially in our upper grade students, procrastination is at an all time high. Um, I. Some of them don't care.

I mean, I don't care about the homework, so that doesn't make me wanna do it. Um, I don't wanna go from a preferred to a non-preferred task. I mean, if I'm video gaming or I'm doing something, I don't, I definitely don't want to shift. Um, so I think there's, um, probably three or four things that I recommend going back to that definition of get stuff done.

Uh, one [00:55:00] of my favorite things is I actually really love to start with the future based imagery of, well, what is the done goal for you, um, in terms of the benefit or the emotion of getting it done? And so here's what I mean by that. So the done goal in some cases from our perspective might be you got that science lab report written up.

But the student's done goal might be, I got mom off my back. The done goal might be that I really wanna go skateboarding because, um, they just paved the, the road outside my house and there's awesome smooth pavement and I really wanna go skateboarding. So my strategy is gonna help a kid get started is I might actually draw a picture of skateboarding on the clock.

At the end of that 45 minutes I might talk about your done goal is to get your mom off your back. So one strategy is to actually incentivize, um, [00:56:00] incentivize my brain doesn't wanna say that word, but, um, give that self incentive of it's gonna feel so awesome to be able to go and skateboard without the guilt of homework hanging over my head.

So that's kind of one way. A second thing that we really want that student to be able to do is, um. I love that concept of you don't need motivation to act. Acting actually brings about motivation. So when you start a part of a task, that's what actually, you know, once you get engaged in it, it's much easier to get going.

I mean, I think you and I have all had that. I mean, you know, if you have to write a report, you avoid, you avoid, you avoid, and then you realize once you get started, okay. I've gotten in the groove of doing it. So I also think it's helpful with students that if you've gotten them to identify the steps of the due, well now they've done some self-regulated learning, I might actually sit with that student [00:57:00] in parallel and begin to get them started.

So I might actually go ahead and support that first step, and I might do some of it and have them sort of add in so that I know once they've started, they're in the groove, they're gonna actually realize it's not as daunting as I thought. Because, so for some students, they've made it to be such an overwhelming, daunting task that when they actually do the steps, they realize, oh, this just wasn't as bad as I what I thought it was.

So, um, sort of sitting with that student to support them and getting started can be helpful. The second thing or the third strategy is, is that. We do know, um, implementation intentions or self-directed talk really help students to get started. And it turns out that implementation intentions are a specific type of language phrases that we know students use to initiate tasks.

I am going to, I will, I can to get started, um, this maybe [00:58:00] that I should do that, that we actually have, um, self, self-talk, um, sentence starters that we give students. So just like you might give a students a sentence starter to write a paragraph, I will literally have the student use that self-talk starter.

Um, and it might even be, I am going to, and that sounds so simplistic, but having the student read that and say, I am going to get the poster board and start by using a light pencil to just draft out where I'm gonna put the pictures. Sometimes that's enough to actually get them to go from intention to action.

They're taking action. 

Amy Wonkka: I love all of those suggestions and find them super helpful. And I think especially that like giving the student just that self-talk language, those are components where. There are little shifts that we can make in our practice. Again, just thinking back to earlier in the podcast where we were talking about, it doesn't have to be this whole separate [00:59:00] thing.

It can be something that you're embedding into your language intervention or articulation, intervention. Um, so I think when you were talking about some of that self-talk and those phrase starters, that's another place where we can just be modeling that language and using that, whether we're working on articulation or social goals, um, or what have you.

Uh, I was wondering in our last few minutes, do you have any other strategies or visuals or tools that you would recommend the SLPs? Think about sort of in that same nature, kind of smaller adjustments that people can make to what they're already doing. Uh, that can help us help our students to work on their self-regulation and other executive functioning skills.

Sarah Ward: Um. So I absolutely shading on a clock is really helpful. But here's the next sort of, I would say, most simplistic thing that's sort of related to that seem, but different is a [01:00:00] final, uh, practical strategy. Um, and it's really related to, to speech and language pathologist and language. Um. One of the things that we know is that language and executive function and cognition are absolutely embodied.

Meaning that we have to feel our body moving through space and time. So if I have 15 minutes to get ready, I need to visualize my body going upstairs into the bathroom, brushing my teeth back into my bedroom to get dressed, and then coming back downstairs to say, make my lunch. And it's my body that is actually doing that action.

My body's walking up the stairs, my body's going into the bathroom, my body's walking back into my bedroom, et cetera. And one of the things that we know that is heavily tied to executive function is gesture, but it's not Coe gesture. If I said I caught a fish that was. This big and I put my hands, you know, six inches apart.

That tells you how big the [01:01:00] fish was. But we know that humans have something called co-taught gesture. And co-taught gesture is exactly what it is. It accompanies your thoughts and when anybody is ever talking to you about their plans, they will talk with their hands, oh, well I've got to leave school. And they'll gesture, you know, their hand moving away.

I've gotta stop and put gas in the car and they'll gesture. Like a stop motion and then I have to, they'll reach far out. I have to go across town and um, you know, go to the grocery store and they reach way far out. And that way far out is their body visualizing I'm driving a distance to get to the grocery store.

So the final practical strategy I can tell you is we always teach adults and teachers and parents to ask a child to quote, point out their plan and to use their gesture to show the action they're going to take. So if it's time for math and I need my whiteboard and my marker and my fraction circles.[01:02:00] 

One of the best things that you can do is say to a student, show me your plan to be ready for math. Because the minute I just even say that word, show me the student needs to show you with their hand gesture. Well, I need to go to the material zone to get my weight board. I need to go to the math zone to get my fraction circles and then point to their desk and go sit at my desk.

And that pointing out your plan allows me to pre-visualize and feel my body moving through space and time. And that relates. And here's my final little, tiny, tiny shift. So often we say to students, tell me what you need to do. Tell me what you need to do to get dressed. Tell me what you need to do to be ready for soccer practice.

Um, you know, what should you be doing right now? Tell me, just change it and say, show me. Show me what you need to be doing to get dressed. Show me what you need to do to set the table. Show me what you need to do to pack the car for ski practice, because even if that tween rolls their eyes, the fact that you said [01:03:00] Show forces the brain and body to visualize action, not just think about the task as pack the car.

I have to show you while I need to go downstairs and get the ski boots out of the closet, I need to go out to the garage and get the skis. I need to carry them out to the car. 

Kate Grandbois: I love this suggestion so much. I'm gonna use it with myself and my entire family like tomorrow. I think that's so great. Um, it's a huge difference.

It it, I can imagine it, it's very logical. You know, we started this conversation talking about executive functioning as this kind of nebulous gray, hard to define ish thing that is in our scope of practice, but is it, and is it on the fringes of our competence for any SLP who is listening right now, who is feeling a little intimidated or unsure or overwhelmed about how to begin implementing some of these things.

Do you have any, do you have any advice for [01:04:00] them? Any perspectives or words of wisdom for someone if this is just very new to them and it feels overwhelming? 

Sarah Ward: Absolutely. Um, I love the gradual release of responsibility method. I. And the gradual release of responsibility says that I, therapist, teacher, do it and you student watch me.

I teach your therapist do it, and you student help me. And then I gradually release the responsibility until it's now you student do it and I watch you. And I know that that's independent and that's actually how we write our executive function goals so that we know, and it makes you a better therapist.

If I can't take my strategy and slide it across the table and say, you student do it, and I watch you, then they haven't really developed that self-regulated learning. And the reason why I say this is I think such a nice entry point for. Clinicians who are like, oh my gosh, I'm [01:05:00] overwhelmed. How do I get started?

Is it's okay to start with, what is my done goal as a therapist? Like, what is the done goal of what it is that I want that child to achieve? The done goal is they've, um, increased their vocabulary. The done goal is, is that they've developed past tense verb forms. The done goal is, is that they've followed, they've gone from a single step to a multi-step direction.

So I, that allows me to say, I therapist am going to show you how do you follow a multi-step direction and you're just gonna watch me do it, uh, thing, um, then I'm gonna do it and you're gonna help me. So I'm going to follow multi-step direction. You're gonna help me. We're gonna use that strategy until I know that I can slide that strategy across to the student and they can follow that multi-step direction using that strategy.

So if my done goal is. I've improved that student's ability to, um, make mental visualization for reading comprehension. [01:06:00] Well, I teach what, what is that done goal look like? I teach, or I'm going to do that and show the student how to do that. And I want them to watch me do it. Now I'm gonna do it and they're gonna help me do it by using that strategy.

And now I'm ready to say, okay, now you didn't use the strategy and I'll watch you. So I think it's very executive function based, but it's just a great entry point for a new therapist to say, it's okay for me to show you. This is the strategy. Now you helped me do the strategy. Now you use the strategy.

'cause I think so many times, otherwise therapists sort of say, here's the strategy. I hope they generalize it and use it. And there's too much of a leap 

Kate Grandbois: right there. That makes a lot of sense. Um, everything you've shared with us today has been incredibly helpful. We're so grateful for your time. Um, anyone who is listening today who would like to earn ASH to EU for listening to this episode, please follow the link in your [01:07:00] show notes.

Sarah, thank you so, so much for being here. This was a truly, truly wonderful, um, experience and you're clearly so knowledgeable and you've broken this very nebulous thing down into its tiny, tiny parts for us. So thank you again so much for sharing your wisdom with us today. 

Sarah Ward: It was so fun to be here and thank you so much for having me and uh, now I guess we all get to go get stuff done.

Right? 

Kate Grandbois: I love that. That's a great way to kick off our first season is to get stuff done. I love it. Thank you again so much. 

GMT20250707-132437_Recording_gvo_1280x720: I. 

Sponsor 2

Kate Grandbois: We wanted to give a quick shout out to our production team. So this podcast is a labor of love. I. And it truly takes a village to make it possible.

So we wanted to just quickly thank everyone on the team who makes it possible. Dr. Anna Paula Mui, who's our Asha CE administrator. She makes all of the Ashes EU possible for each episode. Tegan, her and our production manager, who wears a million hats. Uh, and helps to keep this project alive. Darren Lopez, our production [01:08:00] assistant who helps produce all of our course materials and does all, all of our web production.

Tracy Callahan, who is our advisory board liaison, she helps to make sure that we have content experts involved with each and every publication. And finally, Dr. Mary Beth Schmidt, uh, who provides consultation related to our peer review process, uh, as well as our advisory board who engages with all of our content reviews, all of our submissions, and elevates.

The elevates each production to make sure that we produce high quality material and also helps to make sure that our peer review process is possible. So thank you to everyone involved and we're so glad that everybody was here with us today. And, uh, if you are a listener, please write in any time. Give us a follow, find us on social media.

We love to hear from all of you.

Outro

Kate Grandbois: Thank you so much for joining us in today's episode, as always, you can use this episode for ASHA CEUs. You can also potentially use this episode for [01:09:00] other credits, depending on the regulations of your governing body. To determine if this episode will count towards professional development in your area of study.

Please check in with your governing bodies or you can go to our website, www.slpnerdcast.com all of the references and information listed throughout the course of the episode will be listed in the show notes. And as always, if you have any questions, please email us at [email protected]

thank you so much for joining us and we hope to welcome you back here again soon.

.